Depression and die-off?

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June 19, 2006 5:49 PM

I have been on a low carb version of the Candida diet (more retricted than the version of the diet given on this site (ie: no starches such as rice or potatoes, corn, beans, legumes and more)for three months now. I have had chronic ringworm for six months now, which led to my diognosis. A few weeks ago after another flare-up of my symptoms I decided to give up even stevia and my only carb, a spelt flatbread. I became depressed and exhausted for two weeks and it was only getting worse after which time I decided that if this was more die-off it wasn't worth it. A half an hour after I ate some flatbread my energy began to return and I have since felt really good even though I am still dealing with the ringworm. Am I fooling myself by feeding the yeast with the bread? I don't think I can go through that kind of depression again.
Thanks, Harriet
 
 
 
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June 19, 2006 8:02 PM

Hey harriet,

Wow, you sound like you've had an awful time
Frown But I'm glad you're feeling a bit better now! The exhaustion could easily be related to die-off, other cleansing or withdrawal - I'll leave it up to someone more knowledgable to fully answer that one! However, if your 'gut feeling' says that spelt flatbread doesn't cause you a worsening of symptoms or any bad reactions, than I say go for it! Winky To be honest, my thoughts are that feeling depressed and miserable is more detrimental to your healing than the odd bit of something 'naughty'. I believe that healing progresses well or badly due as much to state of mind as physical causes.

Anyway, spelt is allowed on this diet if there are no adverse reactions, and yu are allowed some carbs on here. After 6 months, it may well be time for you tolighten up a bit, anyway. The only person who can truly know the answer to this is you, and if you take it carefully and trust you instinct, you are sure to find the answers you are looking for! Take care and good luck Smile

xsamx
 
 
 
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June 21, 2006 10:10 AM

I second everything Sam said. But also want to point out that good carbs increase your serotonin. Random factoid-- women have less serotonin than men (well, not less exactly, I think women have more, but it doesn't get used as efficiently) and as a result, many women suffer from depression and other related symptoms.

It is my belief that mental well-being definitely contributes to your overall health--- If you are happier, and continue to manage stress, I think your body's physical health will follow (obviously, great physical problems, diseases, etc, can't be cured in all/most people with just a positive attitude, but you get the idea)---

So I say add in some good carbs. I read a book by an Alternative MD (David Edelberg, book called Triple Whammy Cure) that suggests that you carb-time--- so that you eat carbs throughout the day to make sure you keep up serotonin levels. Now his suggestions would mean that we eat a lot more carbs than allowed on this website's diet, but may give you a general idea--- maybe at least eat some starchy vegetables periodically throughout the day.

I've suffered w/ depression and I know when I am depressed, the last thing I want to do is stick to a super restrictive diet. feeling depressed with no chocolate cake to look forward to is the worst--- Maybe just cut out the items that you seem to have a reaction to, and start adding at least a few grains back in.

Good luck--- Very impressive that you've cut out all those foods and haven't gone on a binge-- better than most (or at least me Big Grin )
 
 
 
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June 21, 2006 12:21 PM

Hi Harriet,

Welcome to Whole Approach, I too commend you on your discipline. With a little bit of experimenting combined with your obviously very strong resolve to get well, I'm sure you'll find a food therapy strategy that works well for you. Are you treating your candida and ringworm with herbal therapies or just doing the diet part?

Low glycemic, gluten free carbohydrates are a good way to support your serotonin levels and so is using substantial amounts of healthy fats (coconut butter, ghee, flax oil, hemp oil, krill oil capsules etc.)

Spelt and other gluten-containing grains can cause depression, anxiety and fatigue due to allergic-type reactions. Sometimes when we are eating the grain we feel temporarily better and then when we stop, we get withdrawal and cravings. It may make sense to try non gluten grains or even non-grain starches for a while. However I agree that using some starch is likely a good idea. Just choose your sources of starch carefully and if you suspect one particular starch of being a problem for you, you can try a two week elimination-provocation trial with it (See the food allergies article in the Newsletter archives for more information about this.)

The Die off reactions related to candida treatment can also cause the symptoms you're describing so you may want to look into this possibility. There is an article in the Newsletter arhives about Die Off (see newsletter linka at top of this page.)

A diet diary and potentially a four day rotation diet might also be helpful to you right now to determine if diet might have something to do with how you are feeling. If you are restricting carbs a lot, I recommend taking a multi vitamin that contains high levels of B vitamins to help replace what you are not getting in the grains. Yellow Sun Multi-Plus This one that Whole Approach sells is hypo-allergenic and free of chemical additives.

If you have a look around our introductory information you may find some inspiration to tweak your strategies here and there. Our welcome post will lead you to some important posts on our site. Welcome to our forum

I'm here every Wednesday and Friday to answer questions so please feel free to post any questions you have after taking a look around here.

Take good care,

Tari-Lee

What is a healing crisis? October 2002 Candida Related Complex and Food Allergies
April 2003 Mental Illness or Allergy?
Candida Die-Off: Your Healing Friend and Foe
An opportunity for emotional, spiritual, and mental growth
 
Last edited by Tarilee June 23, 2006 10:24 AM
 
 
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July 26, 2006 7:29 PM

I have that exact trouble myself. In fact just doing the anti-candida treatment alone throws me into a dreadful black depression. I can barely function and due to that (I was diagnosed about 4 years ago but have been suffering for about 12 years) and since then I would begin the treatments and then after a couple days I quit because I can't deal with the depression.
My hair just started to fall out again and now I am having other skin trouble (the corners of my mouth) and acne is really bad, so I began about 2 weeks ago and it's just getting harder and harder. My family doesn't understand they think it's all in my head so it's hard to get support and I am so sick I haven't worked for almost 10 years. Undiagnosed.
But I totally understand the depression part.
 
 
 
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July 28, 2006 1:35 PM

Hi SC,

The die off from candida detoxification can really do a number on our emotional selves both biochemically and spiritually/emotionally. You could be experiencing withdrawal from your food allergens, or an inadequate supply of starches or healthy fats that both help to balance your nervous system. I'm concerned by what you say and I wish we had some more time to discuss it. However, as you may know, I am "off the air" for a few weeks after this shift. To help you delve into the possible explanations for your problem on your own, I've included some article links that I feel may be relevant to your situation.

An opportunity for emotional,
spiritual, and mental growth


October 2002 Candida Related Complex and Food Allergies

Candida Die-Off: Your Healing Friend and Foe

April 2003 Mental Illness or Allergy?

Take good care and best of luck to you with your healing efforts this summer.

Tari-Lee
 
 
 
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July 29, 2006 12:57 PM

Hi sickchick--I know exactly what you mean. The depressive aspect of detoxing can be more than a challenge. The thing I've learned to do, is to go very slowly...Usually my depression is caused by die off from my antifungal. It releases a ton of toxins into my body and until they clear out I'm a bit of a mess. So what I do is take a much lower dosage and work my way up over a period of 3 months; then I switch antifungals and begin again.

I have found that as you move further along the depression is less because there is less of the candida dying off. It's very important to keep to the WA diet while doing this though, but that's a conversation for another time... Smile

I wish you the best in fighting these beasts and in maintaining a stable feeling inside yourself while doing so--I can pormise you it's well worth it!

Ashley hearthrob
 
 
 
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July 29, 2006 3:32 PM

Good luck Tarilee aren't you moving? Big Grin

I backed off to starting my treatments every 3 days it gives me a day to hit bottom and then a day to rest and then the next day to get back to normal.
When my Naturopath first started me doing the candida cleansing she had me douche with apple cider vinegar (which does the same thing it leaves me in the black depression) as well as drinking any sorts of vinegar and lemon and lime juice do the same thing. (weird huh!)
When I first "got sick" my body went bezerk I literally woke up one morning I had black cirlces under my eyes and my body went into this fight or flight state. I started having manic depressive mood swings (that would cycle every week) I reacted to everything- fruits (especially citrus fruits) I could not eat an orange to save my life (I can now just oranges though) pineapples still give me a huge buzz. I couldn't eat a thing because I was so nervous I lost weight I was digesting food at the speed of light I started getting diahhrea the only thing that would slow down my digestion was eating constantly (so then I gained weight) I became sensitive to light my ears were ringing I couldn't take vitamins I reacted to them too only in the last 2 years I have been able to take them again I couldn't exercise because it made me manic. It was the worst time of my life. Things have chilled out a little my DR's don't return my phone calls I am hyper sensitive to everything. My thyroid tests came back normal, adrenal tests came back normal I can't get massages or do any kind of body work because it makes me depressed. And when I get in that depression I can't like snap out of it it sticks around for months.
In frustration my Psychiatrist told me to go try acupuncture. And it helped. It was the only thing. I do my own treatments now because it's expensive and I am on SSI at the moment. I do the acupuncture once a day. I can at least control that in case I start to feel bad.
So anyways about 2 years ago I was feeling brave and I decided to try walking again ( I was in college when I got sick and I had to quit execising & stuff and really missed it) so I started slow. It made me depressed for about 4 weeks and then slowly it started to make me feel better! It helps with my mood, it helps with my cravings it helps to balance me out and now I can't stop HAHAHA I've lost weight I am back to 120 and still losing Although it's not as detrimental now because I feel really good and that is what matters and hopefully finding this balance of doing the anti candida treatments. (I am not eating fruits btw Wink)

Thanks for the great advice Ashley! I appreciate it immensely. The hardest part for me is feeling like I am the only one who has to deal with this nonsense. I am 34 and single and sick and trying to get healthy enough that I can take care of myself. When I get the die-off I can't focus on anything except how awful I feel. I am sure you guys can appreciate that Yes "I don't feel good.. I don't feel good.. I don't feel good... Oh my god I don't feel good" Right now I am living with my Sister and her Boyfriend and she says to me "If I hear you say one more word about candida"... and then she gives me the look.
I am sure she's got it too! She is happy on her Lamicil. HAHAHA Big Grin
And that is the short version HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA Cool

So I bought some BIOTIN is 1500 mcg enough you think or should I up it? THX my new beautiful friends? Big Grin
xoxo
 
 
 
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July 29, 2006 3:43 PM

Oh Terilee THX I am reading all those now! Big Grin
 
 
 
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